the, the i'm not sure it's not, so you're welcome back to going underground, broke out single, around the world from the middle east. what do us presidents, johnson, nick's attention, obama and by new 11 coming well, they have blood on their hands, a track record of death and destruction through and dimension in countries such as we have down bangladesh, cambodia, argentina, julie, palestine. you have in syria, iraq. i've got a son packaged on libya, some obviously done, that's just naming a few between them. they're responsible for millions of debts around the world, and it continues today is incumbent president joe biden scheduled to meet with the prime minister of iraq countries been bombing in the last few weeks alone. joining me now from washington dc as an official who served in the obama clinton nixon,

johnson and kennedy administration team is director of the task was to produce the pentagon papers that exposed us in dimension in vietnam. it was the late daniel as well. you can watch our studio interview with him on going underground on rumble. who famously leaks impending defeats in vietnam, dr. martin helper and is currently the advisory council chair of advocacy group j straight. thank you so much dr. albert bye. are coming on. you know, it's more than 5 years since british authorities captured julian massage in london because they are interviews with him and one of his grades of support is was daniels bag. the late down those book like understand was your friend to see was uh, you know, before we go to the, into the current state as well, to a terrible state of the world. give me just remind us of how many, perhaps millions of lives you. and then in a way together, saved in the former endo china. it's very hard to know how to trainers to count the

uses, depending on the papers itself, did not show it in the war looms. nobody read them and the war continued and infected fix it, escalated for it to the races of pedagogy. pigs, what did end up ending more was located in watergate was employed, created because of nexus display and distrust. daniels, burke. he was afraid and great had papers about his administration and was going to release them and they have always tried to silence ellsberg and then went to the plumbers to the break and that's pain, psychiatry, so office and then to the reactions which eventually led to woody and then to congress cutty was the 20 for the they have more and that's a billions of lives close to what would have caught on if not for the gate to the end of grace. the end of the next administration can probably be on. so that was literally a domino effect coming from your assessment through to data else. but i mean,

presume we do support like apparently so go mainstream media in the united states so that they don't give it that much prominence. the release of julian, i sondra battery, biden's being pictured perhaps not really understanding what the question was from a journalist that considering stopping the persecution of the way he leeks publisher. they were to stop in of the espionage was this reason should not apply to any actions relating to release of information to the press. he, the bike of refreshments will blame, certainly by the presence of your science. persecution was the 1st time the history that states that somebody, it was not a government official, has been indicted for evaluating the you know, that for doing things that gave information to the public. and i think the last thing i said was, would be unconstitutional if it covered that it would be flow too good. and we

don't need any statute punishing. then we need more information given to the previous attempts to stop daily because it's so detrimental to the bible presidency . why do you think he's doing it? maybe it's something related to that story. you just told me about the pentagon papers is bible expect to julian hassan somehow to have secret papers that will impact on november's election. what is the purpose of ruining the united states is reputation internationally for actually not really having a 1st amendment where the paper it's written on. i think we've started with obama is responsible for this whole expansion of the espionage work to cover things related to giving information to the press and then was continued on the truck. but i think binding ministration just inherited ongoing and it seems things to continue with. and that way that they gave me much consideration gressick and

now concerned much more about the tax and they have some the west and issues that excite people in the way that the vote for boy. and i think they're looking for things to do that can help them with that a year with a cool white voters. and one of the things would be to track the sun persecution. i'll get onto the circle left to the level when we get there to get to gaza. but uh, what was your opinion then of uh, the jack texerra case tex early pentagon papers that you are the, by the ministration use of lensky is the so called counter offensive would fail. the british soldiers were in ukraine. you agree that the jack texera shouldn't have been prosecuted under the espionage act to god 716 years. as i said, i think the jag has written these 4 to grade the cover information we to the press and i'm not sure we should have

a statute. general recovery that we're cameras has done in certain feels like a ton mccain. and she's like the names of covered engines, like communications, intelligence has created separate narrowly drawn statues that cover those categories of information and make it a crime. to publish that kind of information. i think that's the way to handle the problem with the general s. mean, i should ask you to cover as well, information that the company just try to keep secret. as things go, it was, it was something we know. edward snowden says, now a mass surveillance, and i'll get onto your system. isn't it in a moment? did you not tell your boss is a but bomber and clinton about your worries of this whitening use of the law to prevent the american public from understanding other government work? well, clinton, vin, into any of it. so we jonathan for that, we could talk about other issues and bottom administration. i was on the board of

some because my new challenge corporation. so i think that have an opportunity to raise these kinds of issues with present it to anybody in the industry. okay. well, of you adults clinton, i'm sure some people talk about the yugoslav war in that regard. just as you could see, what happened to information during that war. let's get onto kissinger. i should say he threatened me once on the phone. i'm not sure why. tell me why your boss, henry kissinger, the lady henry kissinger, was bugging your phone. it was your boss rouse. i was working for him on the national security council staff and the tires, close to story saying that the united states were seriously bombing cambodia. and providing some of the details about how the bombing was being carried out. the next thing was furious because he was trying to keep the bottom a secret. he sort of became public. that would be an outcry and he was expanding

the war and that he would be forced to stop on. so he to, to take over that you've chosen his solution to every solution to everything was void. so because in order to find that it was leaking his toward that, so it makes it talk, isn't your figure out who understands might be doing the weekend and give those names to whomever we've been going to tap those people. and i think make some gateway, they could have cases, you gave my name because he's what i read the story because he switched over and mix it. so i read the story in the way to protect himself. looks to give my name to the bill. but what a lovely, lovely man, of course, kissinger had big doubts about the ukraine conflict before he. he died. you, however, are as whole keisha's ever own. that you think that the united states endangers its

national security? if zalinski doesn't win the war? i do. i always seem to claim administration when we were urging the, the ukraine government to give up its nuclear weapons. you remember when the soviet union fell apart to create weapons, it several states that this new independent states, when we put so we one of those was ukraine, which had a substantial number of nuclear weapons, new training. and so we looked at to give it up and we got together with the russians, originated to give a new key with this to turn the back to russian pending return rusher and united states. most promised to create that we were defending because they retired by any state. that was a nuclear weapons power. and of course they happened and we have not. we chosen that's in our own troops, which i understand. but i think we move in military equipment and support so that

they can preserve their independence. yeah. but it is really to do in the us security. why over the dead bodies of ukrainians? and as for that, a nuclear weapon deal, which happened while you were working there in the clinton administration. you think victoria knew live with of the range? the 2014 who is mean fluid from that? the trunk cool. if you crane had nuclear weapons, russia would have moved much more swiftly give lead to protect the people in these new grain. don't you think? i'm not sure how you sort of rules and nuclear weapons and that uses with no status you ever figured out. i'd actually use them to the page the policy entries. so i'm not sure what the difference. so i thought that's why you were, you were mentioning it in that regard. but i think the fundamental question is annoyed. austin was saying congress in the past few days. look,

this is about helping the industrial base of the united states as much, and that's a quote from him as it is about ukraine. don't you think the rest of the world which clearly is trading with russia? most of the world is ignoring these nato nations sanctions. they think if the united states really seriously thinks what happens in ukraine is a threat to be american people, the american military should be fighting their rather than the making. the ukrainian, a generation of ukrainians die for this one. i don't think we're making the creative use. i think so as i can tell, the war is supported by the past. majorities the creed, people who do not want to be part of russia and are volunteering and fighting to launch numbers. i think the united states always in the support again to fight or if they think here things which is fine to be part of

a brochure in the united states is not having an interest separate from your grades and keep them keep the russian so green river report suggested that as a one to 10 fatality ratio in this conflict discussion rates are rocketing any your every european city is one of ukrainians are fighting ages of uh uh, i'll give you a left left the country. so you are a firm believer that the $61000000000.00 will make all the difference to the war effort, even though the fed lloyd austin. i think even said the 61000000000 is recycled to arms companies in the united states. there's a, let's get, we'll get any of that money for a few months yet, even if it didn't, okay to groups, the design is easy to get the web. it's what we're wanting to say is we use the money to buy weapons. so american weapons, manufacturers protect ship those records to create so they hit the weapons and

money and the tech stays in the united states. we simply by the weapons and then shipped him to create the doctor help. i'll stop you there. more from the former official in the obamacare into nixon johnson and you have gave ministrations after this break the door to door courts. you just don't want to miss soon. so immediate a meeting. so we will use the search for a new settings from really simple things. i'm waiting from it on the computer. no, yes, it personally sell the to the sale be the name is e,

as in which the v as you permission to, to be there. you think you should get us the book which and such as to me and i don't i thought a soup. inducing that to, to see the purpose passed the the welcome dispatch stuff. full work is here. we discussed the wheel in the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with full or official to the category johnson nixon clinton 100 bumper administration and card advisory council chair of j street, dr. morton helper and a dr. alber and you were talking about how important it is to continue the war in

ukraine. why do you think it is that, i mean, we had the reagan official on the show, the other week, a former assistant secretary defense telling us, you know, if necessary, the united states would use it to nuclear weapons, rams tinetta base if it became necessary. so important is ukraine. why? i mean, do you believe that russia is interested in invading poland or from britain at that seems to be the kind of thing i have to be blinking says on a regular basis. if you, if you let them go into your grade and he's going to take over paris by next year, you're worried much more about the baltic states. and i do that. why would you want to take finland? seriously? russia is the last country. it's oh, you're right for you. and with the rain you and those states were part of the so we know sylvia junior high, they broke where to

a some of the before the breakup of so he and you showed in, in georgia, elsewhere around his boys page that satisfied with the borders that we joined during the breakup of the soviet union and i think he will continue to push until we stop for what purpose, res, purposes, to re recreate soviet empire. i think he, you know, he said recent great mistake the greatest mistake of a century was for. so you, you think, well, this states to break off influence have been cut the tariff more towards one nation very close at hand, that he has a secret obligation to try to reach to reset. and i think he will push until the stuff. well, he always is as, as not the goal, but do you don't see that there are echoes of what you're saying there about a present day russian veneration. and what the,

the nixon administration of the johnson i'm kennedy administration said about how important the war vietnam was in the bulletin size was nixon by the address of a destroying cambodia. do you don't see any echoes of that? the truth and it is always difficult to tell whether wars one, it's trustworthy that when it was when it is in the american interest to side with that. and that is an issue that has to be faced and reserved every case. but the fact that one concludes that the via, the more was not just for there's not a war we can win because we run the warmer side. does not mean that ukrainian war is the one that we can read. and there's not a trustee. it may be that it's also around just for you as a, as samples we about each floor and it's not the case that no worries,

no worries friday. and it's not the case that everyone was fighting. so each one has to be taken on its own merits. of course, of course, but then we now have the revelations of the c i a had bases in ukraine ahead of time. we have the cool about victoria newland talking to jeffrey po. what was happening in 2014, if russia or china started putting the secret intelligence spaces on the mexican border of the united states, would the united states be justified in the, in the advancing into mexico to take them out. i mean, i need, the context is slightly different because of course they were russian speak as being the prosecutors and these new crime. i don't think we would have the right to go into mexico and i think it was a mistake to expand a i was against deal expansion. greer wasn't mistaken. country to insurance is 3,

a give it to russia? well, what we're happy to see you. i'm sure, but it's beautiful and i think we should have made a deal if we could have that entirely clear whether it was past reservation that you create would love to come part of a of that nature. would that station any over in military forces or clear this code? well, why not know why not have peace talks now? to end the was the landscapes made it illegal to have peace negotiations. they were of course the ones in his temple. why do you just support more weaponry being born in the visuals? i'm always in favor for him. and i see what a brand new work. and i would certainly be in favor of offering the russians and agreement that these, that you create with that become part of the day, you know, and they are with the station forces in ukraine and review over it. forces will create this and forces and that the weight, sorry, no doubt,

but this is exactly what the russians said. they want to dismiss. to see if you know what usa is with the, what we're seeing, the independence of ukraine original jet when they started to work is to capture bruno of ukraine. no, i where are you getting that from? because the objective always since the minutes records was for a neutral ukraine just as you outlined there. now of course, the russian veneration says, look, it's too late because clearly these western pads got be trusted and they need to buffers a. but even then, i don't know, maybe they are open old food and says is the ones negotiation and it's now too late to negotiation. now given me because previous to go, she ations of mean double crossed never too late to sions. i think it was clear that he wanted to capture on a few crate. it certainly with ukraine's expected. and president of ukraine,

you know, was debating whether it's leave the country or when i'm trying to go on to cram. but other that is right now where we are in, i think it is time to start trying more. and as i said, i think some concessions. some should be the soviet security concern. well, currently granting and again, i'm much was the old and they could have before arguably. and as i said, roger is made it, terry, did they ever had any interest in taking ukraine does not start with. and let's go to that other war divided administration is involved in the weapon ising and boring millions of dollars, annoying zalinski as well because the landscape is the same. the weapons that we're headed, his way of going to be sent to nothing. yahoo! why do you think the by the ministration is continuing to pull weapons into israel to, to, to bomb cause a when it doesn't help him elect truly. it doesn't help him in to naturally entails

a reputation. it doesn't help the united states is reputation. a. and a part for me, i suppose, some profit making by weapons companies in the united states that say anthony blinking consulted for and lloyd austin worked for what is the advantage of continuing to send 2000 pound booms. and that's in yahoo are publicly saying don't, don't use them. i don't know. i think it's a major mistake to send those words. and i think the united states needs to make it clear that it does not support a new invasion to cause. its weapons cannot be anything we support cannot be used for that purpose and that it's time to open up the borders of when you mandatory assistance pay surgery we needed. and i think by this now finally

beginning to push in that direction or the serious way. i think is really is, will at least some of comply with that because they all have to pay the support. well, mind story about appear rather than any great success with the tonnage of food coming in. but you didn't really answer me. why is he doing this? then what does that mean? you being in these administrations what, what are the, what are the conflicting conversations in the oval office about such in obedience. if you have, you know, bring this community to life, believing that israel should be supported, believing that it's right to exist in scro, you thoughts. but feeling the political pressure in that direction. i mean, it's always been the case up until now, but the pressure on president was to support issue and it's no dramatically protection reaching. and i think by does not get caught up. but i

think they now understand beginning to move in that direction. a debit is too late, isn't it? for the international reputation. these cases, we'll continue legally, obviously, you know, it's, uh, he's meeting with the rocky prime minister else who donny while if he's bombing iraq in the past few weeks. obviously, britain in the united states bombing yemen for solidarity action for their shipping and biographers. railing goods. tell me about the modeling old right. what, what? why did you point new director of policy planning under clinton? it was a little bright, is famous in this region of west asia for saying that it was a price. what paying when 500000 maybe children were killed by us sanctions on iraq . i'm not familiar with that. quote, i don't know why she picked me. i knew her right, know if here's an example or

a staff were there were some people to see if we're very close to me and i think very soon with me, but she never said i had a quote that was asking whether i would accept a job a policy planning direction or if i was offered and i said would. and because we have that all the right of us, we don't, we are. what did it feel like when $1010.00 bomb, the chinese embassy in belgrade, and the head of the total destruct breakup. of yugoslavia you were there and was you a fever of intervention? it costs that obviously, bombing the chinese embassy and remember cookie. i never was able to get to the bottom of what, what that was the way that somebody would be visiting. and if so, for what reason? but i think the intervention to stop was the genocide can speak, cause of all baby needs was justified. and i think the policy certainly went to

head. but if you are willing to recognize cause of us or then you have no problem with delight to be a proof. in recognizing grammy a lot of the russian federation, nothing was new. there was no ongoing effort. play the part of that. because of you create to massacre and try that, the russian speakers or you can try me. i think the right people to break away from the government is condition going to be mastercard underway or we have a you don't have a problem with the referendum. and in this case, able to realign view is it was nato bombing. and then the some unilaterally against the international community and against any un resolution, recognizing costs or some kind of separate country and then imposing a referendum where indeed they voted the way the washington like isn't very,

are there any similarities between what that is and what the russian government thinking reasons using mistake to recognize the independence because of the agreement was because we come under the un security kansas supervision and the future customer to determine by negotiations among the interesting parts, including the service and the cost of her paintings and subject to approval by the security council and i think the decision to declare customer independence and to recognize that independence wasn't mistaken. a violation of the security council resolution, which way to the security council supervising, comfortable and higher. great. very much. yeah. well, most countries, i don't think really recognize it today except western european ones. but then do you think and clearly you voice concerns about donald trump's election?

what's your view about his political persecution? as he says, a leading opposition leader in the polls and on the cost of jail all the time, every other week from pauses and political authorities allied to the by the justice department. as far as the you hear from the trump campaign, what do you think that looks like to the rest of the world? because it's trump, who's being done with under the espionage act we spoke of earlier. you will use using logic. again, same is different because it's for miss handling of course, right? information. not giving it to the press, but simply storing it where it can be stored and refusing to return it when years to return it. but it's a separate crime and it's one that doesn't give rise. the 1st amendment issues, the way the assigned case starts. but i think there were genuine issues. and i

think this slide hooks up and the fewer physical action wise people to say when we used to be very careful about going down the page. i was trying to invite sort of presidents. i think that's very dangerous. but i'd much more comfortable with the january 60 day than i am with your doctor more than help or and thank you . thank you. and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to the survivors of u. s. u k. you nation, i'm kidding. in palestine, syria young and 11 in the around the rock will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then came in touch my role as social media, if it's not sent to your country and had to have channel going on the ground tv on rumble, don't com to let you know the episodes of going underground. so you said that the the,

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